So there has been a lot of talk lately about over/under scoring going on in the US, plus claims of this and that person won’t score blah, blah, blah internationally. But I wonder what will really happen. Because when I think about it, there have been instances where people actually got higher scores at the Olympics. Let’s take a look at some examples. (By the way, I am absolutely excluding the American Cup from this discussion, that is the most extreme case of over scoring and I don’t care to include it).
Terin Humphrey- In Athens, Terin got her highest scores EVER on bars, thus she did win a silver medal. During 03′ and 04′ Nationals I always thought she was underscored, getting like 9.3’s and during the Olympics she scored a 9.625, 9.575, and a 9.662.
Oana Ban- I think she was underscored A LOT during international competition. In the 2003 World Championships she received a 9.400 during AA on floor. I thought that should have been more in the 9.6 range. Low and behold during the Athens prelims she does in fact score a 9.6.
Carly Patterson- Carly’s highest score on beam in the 2003 Worlds was a 9.612 for a pretty flawless routine and the only visible deduction came from a hop on the landing. Whereas in Athens she scored two 9.725’s, 9.612 (including a couple of bobbles) and a 9.775 (prefect routine, small hop on the landing).
It is important to note that each competition seems to have their own range. In the 2003 Worlds I thought the scores were generally a bit lower. There were very few scores above a 9.6 until finals. For the 2007 Worlds we have to consider the B-Panel scores. And very few people hit above a 9.3 B-score.
A good example is the difference of B-scores on floor between the 2006 and 2007 Worlds. For 2006 here are some examples:
Cheng Fei- 9.475 (15.875) (6.4)- FX Finals
Beth Tweddle- 9.425 (15.450) (6.0) – FX Finals
Jana Bieger- 9.250 (15.550) (6.3)- FX Finals
Vanessa Ferrari- 9.350 (15.450) (6.1)- FX Finals
So now here are some of the highest scores on floor for 2007 Stuttgart…
Now as far as B-scores go, Shawn Johnson received a 9.225 (6.2) during AA, and a 9.150 during Finals. Alicia Sacramone scored a 9.125 during finals, 9.175 during prelims. Even the awesome Cheng Fei scored only a 8.975 during prelims (uhhh, what did she do wrong? Am I blind?)
For the entire 2007 Worlds, B-scores were pretty low. Nastia Liukin got the highest B-score for uneven bars final of a 9.2. And really none of the events scored much higher than that at all. a 9.1 or 9.2 was a really good score.
So I have to wonder what the Olympics are going to do. Where will their B-panel lie?
And what about the A-panel? Shawn is going to have a hard time getting credit for the Amanar, and the whip to triple (based on Trials and Nationals). On Day 2 of Trials that Amanar was not all the way round. And what about the connections for Nastia’s uneven bar set? Her botch on the Lin (I think it is a Lin) should have lost connection value. And I can’t see her double turn on floor getting credit when she hardly does a 1.5. I am not here to attack, and don’t want to start up more heat, but seriously everyone, what is going to happen to America’s top two gymnasts in Beijing? Because we can’t take Nationals/Trials scores as what to expect in Beijing!!
Tags: 2003 Worlds, 2006 Worlds, 2007 Worlds, 2008 olympics, Alicia Sacramone, Athens 2004, beth tweddle, Carly Patterson, Cheng Fei, gymnastics, Jana Bieger, Nastia Liukin, Oana Ban, overscoring, Shawn Johnson, Terin Humphrey, underscoring
June 25, 2008 at 4:58 pm |
I’m 110% certain that Shawn knows what she’s doing, and that she doesn’t rely on flawed scoring to gain information about her own performance and progress. After one of the days of competition last week, she said in an interview that she knew she didn’t perform anywhere close to what she wanted, and that she can feel even the most subtle differences, even ones that viewers can’t see. That sounds like Shawn to me. So I think the whip-triple and the Amanar are going to A-Ok.
June 25, 2008 at 5:08 pm |
Bettycoltrane-
I agree. The whip-triple was much better at Trials than Nats. I am just so nervous because I want her with the AA title soooooooooooooo bad!
June 25, 2008 at 7:05 pm |
Whip-trip and Amanar are both getting better. I think she will do well enough to get A-score.
I think Jana will get a break at Olympics over what happens here (but it would help both her look and performance if she leaned up just a tad).
Nastia will get similar scores except on UB where she will get slammed a little harder for an off dismount (if extremely off).
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BTW, I never hear all this worry about judge bias or US versus International wrt men’s gymnastics? What do you think of US scoring of men?
June 25, 2008 at 9:18 pm |
TCO-
“BTW, I never hear all this worry about judge bias or US versus International wrt men’s gymnastics? What do you think of US scoring of men?”
What an excellent point!!! I know very little about the men’s side, I haven’t watched 100s of hours of their meets. But it is true, I don’t really hear that stuff. Maybe it is because WAG is more popular that MAG in the US? I would say that in general, but I can’t speak intelligently on how other countries view gymnastics. I know it is important on either side in China though!!! I do think that the Men’s Nationals are always scored a bit high. I am one of those that even before injuries, Paul Hamm WILL NOT beat Yang Wei. I think he will have a hard time beating Fabian Hambuchen (sp)? as well. I am very excited though to watch MAG at the Olympics because I am excited for the Chinese to win on their territory and I am pulling quite hard for Yang Wei.
I also liked Raj Bhavsar quite a bit and I feel bad for him.
What a good question though! Sorry I can’t answer it well, i gotta think about that more…
June 26, 2008 at 1:35 am |
For MAG, the scoring in the U.S. is definitely really good. most of the time scores are dead on. (at times i have seen underscoring as well)
also yang wei has more than a two point lead over paul in starts so i really dont see him defending his olympic crown unless yang falls 10 times.
and i hate to say this but i think shawnee and co. are in for a major reality check
June 27, 2008 at 12:59 am |
Paul was looking good. Not sure about Wei, but I think Fabian…he would have the young pup.
July 15, 2008 at 11:44 pm |
I personally feel that the B-scores being lower isn’t such a bad thing. The new code of points rewards difficulty so much that many gymnasts (like Yang Wei, Jana Bieger, or even Vanessa Ferrari) can do well without demonstrating any artistry, while gymnasts like Ivana Hong, who has impecable form, aren’t rewarded. Being harsher with B-scores and deductions allows the judges to make the distinction between good and bad form.