So I have been hearing little tidbits here and there that Nastia Liukin will have a 7.9 A-score on bars by way of connecting her Tkatchev to her Pak salto. Well, a 17 is certainly possible with that one. Does anyone have any information on this? Where is this coming from? Not that I don’t think that it is totally feasible, I have thought about that connection when watching this new routine. Any one have any hardcore source that this may be true?
Which brings me to my newest code problem. I think it is complete garbage that Nastia may have the AA advantage because of this one routine. Even those who are really good at uneven bars, Nastia’s routine outdoes them by a whole point. (To clarify, I think that those who have a 6.7 or higher on bars and beam are very respectable difficulty).
I don’t care what people say, I don’t think Nastia is a strong All-Arounder, hence does not deserve that crown. I have blogged about this before, but let me reiterate; An ALL AROUND winner is the gymnast whom is the best on ALL FOUR EVENTS COMBINED! Bars has been proven to be the highest A-score producing event thus far. And Nastia lacks the greatness at HALF the events of the All-Around. A manipulated code lets her eek out difficulty in a floor routine full of boring, combined twisting elements, which has always lacked a double back salto. She may be the prettiest dancer out there, but um, shouldn’t tumbling count too? Geez. And the tumbling that IS done, is quite sloppy; crossed legs on the twists, and the one double salto produced is super cowboyed. Vault isn’t bad, just weak. And I will believe she has the double twisting Yurchenko when I see it. And IF I see it, I bet it isn’t good, and severely piked. She has enough problems with a 1.5.
Don’t mistake my comments for total slander. I like Nastia. I think she is among the world’s best on bars and beam; but that’s where she is- an event specialist. Not to totally compare her to Shawn Johnson (but I guess I am), Shawn is a fantastic All-Arounder with a weaker uneven bars set. What makes her worthy on that event is that she does the hardest dismount in the world, one that no gymnast has consistently kept in their repertoire. Producing one of the hardest skills on each event and one of the hardest vaults is WHY Shawn has been winning, and why I like her; she is a valid All Around gymnast.
Also, just to point out how unfair this is, it would be REALLY hard for Alicia Sacramone or Cheng Fei (arguably the BEST 3-event gymnasts) to take the AA with a substandard bars set. Cheng has a shot to win half of the event finals (and the extreme favorite for the vault) but her biggest strengths come on the two lower scoring events. If bars was one of their super-strong events though, they would score higher in the AA due to start scores. Ridiculous.
Bottom line, sucks that you might win the All-Around because you’re really good at one event and amazing at another. If that was a Half-Around competition, then I would say Nastia derserves that one.
Tags: Alicia Sacramone, Cheng Fei, code problems, gmynastics, Nastia Liukin, Shawn Johnson
May 6, 2008 at 8:18 pm |
You are right, of course.
If both Nastia and Shawn HIT, Shawn will win.
But Nastia could win under this system if Shawn and the other truly “:all-around” gymnast miss.
Long-term, it’s the beginning of the end of the AA gymnast. It’s already happened on the Men’s side. VERY FEW of the top men want to do AA now.
One day we will watch apparatus finals to see the best gymnast. The AA will be the Pentathalon, of much less interest. I was shocked to see this phenomenon at NCAA Championships this year. No one seemed to care who won the AA. All that mattered was team.
May 6, 2008 at 10:26 pm |
Check out my blog out at http://polish101-gymnastics.blogspot.com/
In it, I did an AA final post in which I actually predicted Liukin would get AA gold. However, I predicted this because I felt that Shawn, and others, will make some mistakes and Liukin’s overwhelming strength on two events would get her the gold. However, if everyone does what their capable of winning, it’s Johnson’s gold for sure. By the way, I think your blog is really good and I posted a link of your on my blog as well.
May 7, 2008 at 10:25 pm |
If I have to watch Nastia win the AA title simply because of her alleged 7.9 UB A score, I will actually cry. I think the new code sounded great to the powers that be, in theory, but clearly in practice, there is some serious code-raping going on. I think that the original intent was of course to award good, difficult routines. However, it has turned into rewarding highly difficult routines, with a half-ass B score. Ugh, it annoys me to no end!!! In the old code, Shawn would have the gold in my opinion- under the new code, she’s going to have to hit HARD!!!!
May 7, 2008 at 11:51 pm |
100% agree.
The A ratings on UB are totally fxcked up. It’s too easy to perform a D or E skill on UB than any other event.
May 8, 2008 at 12:04 am |
Ashley:
You rock. Can’t agree more. But by the way, and I am not gonna officially post about this, but rumor is that in the training camp Shawn beat Nastia, followed by Sam Peszek, then Chelsea Davis.
May 8, 2008 at 12:07 am |
And the connection bonus. Ugh, aren’t all skills on UB automatically connected to each other??? I mean, if the connection breaks, you fall off the bars.
May 7, 2008 at 10:15 pm |
I hope that training camp rumor is true- that just made my night. How do you hear about these camp rumors- it’s awesome! Oh, and by the way, I think Chelsea Davis could really be an awesome gymnast if she hangs around until 2012. She has great lines and is a pretty beam worker. So, if I am reading that correctly, at camp it was Shawn, Nastia, Sam, Chelsea- correct? I hope Shawn’s Amanar is really good. Is it too obvious that I just love her
Davis- I totally agree about all the connection bonuses- i mean really, they ARE all connected to some degree!!
May 8, 2008 at 12:57 am |
From what I understand those who are competing this very close upcoming friendly meet at the ranch are not at this camp, they are coming soon.
And all my info primarily comes from the wwgym forum, there’s a link on one of these posts I just wrote. There is another good insider forum, gym gossip, but I can’t get in because I am not a coach/athlete and haven’t tried to look for someone to sponsor me to get in. But from what I understand, at least this kind of scoring insider info gets into these other message boards. gymworld is another one. I really love wwgym though. I own more than 100 meets on burned DVD’s and after watching them over umpteen times I thought I was pretty knowledgeable, but I have learned soooo much in the past couple of months! I highly recommend checking it out!!
And yes, hearing that she won made my night too
May 8, 2008 at 10:05 am |
Do you know who all is competing at the friendly meet. I know Chellsie, but that’s all I know.
May 8, 2008 at 4:06 pm |
Look on the inside gymnastics website. They have an article about it.
May 9, 2008 at 9:16 pm |
but wait
wasn’t Nastia winning AA competitions back in the old code too?
and some people actually LIKE twisting combinations! Izbasa has one of my favorite routines
a double back doesn’t equal fantastic gymnast, Produnova was a VERY weak back tumbler, does that mean she’s no good on floor?
May 10, 2008 at 1:40 am |
A valid argument, but this is where I am coming from…
-Winning what competitions in the AA? The American Cup DOESN;t count in my eyes, first off, the score inflation among the Americans in infuriating. Nationals? The old code? Sure. Courtney McCool and Elise Ray were also twisters-only. I LOVED their style but I still wouldn’t credit them for being the truly versatile gymnast, capable of every type of move. In the old code, you could do this. I ALWAYS hated that. Izbasa also is capable of full-ins as well as really great twisting combos. Rebecca Bross I like. I can’t believe the HEIGHT she gets on her twisting! But she shows she can do other moves too. Her no hands to pull her legs full-in is GREAT! Much better than most full-ins to me. It’s not twisting I hate, it’s ONLY twisting that I dislike. But my point is you could get away with a lot more in the old code.
-When the new code came out, I thought that there was more ups than downs. (Downs being that the 10 was gone, confusing to average crowds, etc.) But I thought finally, Kui Yuayuan beam 1997 WC EF won’t happen again, difficulty will be rewarded. I also loved the “double salto” rule on floor.
-Produnova was a very weak back tumbler. But who else has done her vault? How many people tumble a front layount into a double front? Not many. And while she lacked grace of all sorts, she was a power event type to me. She also was a two event gymnast. I liked her. But I thought she was not so great on bars and floor. She could do a piked Yaeger and double front off beam though. But in this new code she would get clobbered for form.
-Like I said, I don’t dislike Nastia. And I prefer the WOW factor of gymnastics. But on floor and vault, Nastia is sub par. And that is not vaild enough to win the AA.
May 10, 2008 at 1:18 pm |
Nastia lost the 05 world AA with a HUGE hop on vault, the vault she stuck in warm-ups
and she was national champion in the AA and the US Classic
while, yes, the scores were inflated, she was consistently way ahead of everyone else
May 11, 2008 at 4:59 pm |
Nastia is far from the prettiest dancer in the world. Though I like her personality I think her choppiness, lack of flow, pretentious and gratuitous throwing back of the head, and the total absence of any sense of narration has her far far below Anna Pavlova (who is in another league), Alicia Sacramone, Vanessa Ferrari, any of the Chinese gymnasts except Jiang Yuyuan (who seems a little immature on floor), Sandra Izbasa, and probably many others.
She has nice split leaps but on the whole I find her floor routines grating and insufferable to watch.
May 17, 2008 at 12:03 am |
ok the whole argument about how its unfair that if u happen to specialize in vault and floor instead of the higher scoring beam and bars makes no sense!! see the scores are proportionate. a good vaulter can be about 7 tenths higher than an avergae DTY vaulter, meanwhile a good 7.2 bar worker can be the same 7 tenths higher on that event than the good vaulter. everything still plays out evenly cause its in proportion
the difference is that cheng and alicia can barely break 14s on bars so their AA scores can never be competitive. and bar/beam specialists such as nastia and yang yilin can bring in 6.2 A on floor and still produce respectable, world class routines. (there were several girls in 2007 fx ef who had 6.2 A too)
im saying that nastia and yang are FAR better floor gymnasts than cheng and alicia are bar workers. it is unfair to use these gymnasts to argue that point
May 17, 2008 at 12:07 am |
and to marriane, besides jiang and pavlova, i think its funny that u chose ferrari and the others for the “prettiest dancer”
May 17, 2008 at 12:08 am |
one final thing, if nast connects tchathev to pak (D+D), she will only earn one tenth in CV bringing her up to a 7.8 not 7.9
May 17, 2008 at 8:25 pm |
ok NAME one person who has won a world champ… and than went onto win the olympics…i can’t think of any from top of my list…
May 17, 2008 at 8:27 pm |
with that said…i dont’ see shawn as a bet to win and if had to bet my money i wouldn’t bet on shawn……
May 18, 2008 at 12:26 pm |
Lilia Podkopayeva
May 23, 2008 at 10:00 pm |
i wud bet my money on yang yilin and jiang cause they have the highest starts and being chinese, they will inevitably be overscored
June 12, 2008 at 12:41 am |
Expecting an “All Arounder” to be strong on every event isn’t realistic. Of course Nastia has one or two events that are stronger than the other two or three–I would say that a lot of other gymnasts do, too. If Nastia can beef up her total score by doing exceptionally well on UB, I say more power to her. Isn’t that what most people do anyway, just not as obviously as Nastia does?